Montythemoth
Australia
Stuart
Garrettsville
Shanghai is great. A very cosmopolitan city, it is easy for expats to live in and adjust to. Things are expensive (well, things like housing and luxury items… food and clothing can be, like in most of China, very cheap once you know where to look). The weather is hot and humid much of the year, basically semi-tropical. English teaching jobs are very easy to find so if you get stuck in a situation where you are not happy, start looking. There are TONS of foreigners in Shanghai so you may find it is really not all that different from living in any other large, international city. That said, it is a great base from which to travel around and experience the “real” China.
Montythemoth
Australia
Thanks Stuart. Are you living there now? That is top info because we have zero idea but just have felt destined to go there, if that makes sense? It is very exciting. I hear the traffic is deadly, is english spoken widely in Shanghai?
Stuart
Garrettsville
Hi, no I am not there now. I have spent most of the past 10 summers in nearby Hangzhou, however, and I visit people there often (and I have a friend who is currently living there full time). The traffic is awful but that is true of everywhere in China these days. I would say it is not much worse than Manhattan or London during rush hour. You will probably get around mostly by walking, subway or taxi.
English is very common. For example, I speak Mandarin but when trying to find a Starbucks, realized I didn’t know the Chinese word for “Starbucks” (they repurpose english words so they often don’t resemble the original… like Kentucky Fried Chicken would be Gen Da Ji and McDonald’s is Mai Don Lau). I simply stopped one of the many, many foreigners who lives there and asked where one was and there you go. It is Xin Ba Ke (pron. Shing Bah Kuh) by the way :).
You don’t need to know any Chinese to get along just fine in Shanghai but it wouldn’t hurt to learn a few phrases like excuse me, please, thanks, how much, where is the bathroom, etc. Check out Mango Languages ( http://www.mangolanguages.com/index.php ) for a fantastic, free online course in Mandarin.
Montythemoth
Australia
Bless you!Thanks so much, particularly for the essential KFC and Maccas translation – haha we will need those!
I will check out the course – I imagine it will be a huge challenge living in China,but that is why we are doing it. I find chinese writing fascinating, but it boggles me completely. Can you write in chinese? It looks like it would take an hour to write one letter, but are they letters, symbols- god its a whole world and concept over there that I feel so ignorant to. I can’t wait to learn as much as I can because it is fascinating. How did you find the locals? I have heard stories that they can seem quite rude, but I am sure that is true with anywhere in the world and is a generalisation. Any tips on do’s and don’ts in dealing with Chinese?
Thanks for your time and effort in answering all this for me, I really appreciate. Am a newcomer to 43 things and think it is a brilliant website for supporting people through their goals, makes this huge world feel so small hey.
Stuart
Garrettsville
No problem, happy to assist. It really isn’t as huge a challenge as you might think (especially since you will be in Shanghai… had you been going to someplace more remote, that would be a different matter) but it does provide ample opportunity for adventure since China is as huge as the U.S. and very diverse.
The writing is hard. My speaking is gobs better than my writing as I chose to focus on speaking/listening in order to be able to communicate as quickly as possible. However once you learn the radicals that make up each character, you’ll begin to see the patterns and commonalities that make up the characters themselves and they won’t look quite like a random pile of noodles.
People can seem rude. It is true. However much of that is perception. If they don’t know you and can’t communicate with you then why waste time dealing with you? This comes from having to deal with sooo many people all day long… it is easier just to tune out the people you don’t know. Once you make some friends, though, you’ll find Chinese people can be very nice and welcoming. I’ve seen foreigners who were walking around grinning ear to ear, nodding to anyone that walked past them and saying “Oh, pardon me” every minute and this seems strange to Chinese (and those Chinese seem rude to the foreigners). Be prepared to be bumped into by people who will then not acknowledge that they just did so… from their perspective, you just can’t apologize to each one of the hundreds of folks you’ll bounce off of in a day. One thing to remember, Chinese culture is high-context whereas Americans and Brits (don’t know where you are from but most Westerners are similar) are low-context. This means that Chinese aren’t as explicit or direct about things and thus can seem to be waffling or unable to get to the point. This can be difficult at times but being aware of it can help you understand why some things are they way they are.
There are many do’s and don’ts but you’ll have to figure them out as they happen (don’t worry, there aren’t any huge gotchas to watch out for)! For example, don’t give someone a clock as a gift (symbolizes marking time until death), don’t stick your chopsticks straight down into a bowl and stick them there, rather lay them across the top (also a death related thing), haggle over prices (but not in dept. stores/grocery stores… only from smaller vendors) or you WILL get ripped off. I usually counter offer 1/4 of the asking price. Never accept something without first asking the price (I’ve seen someone pose for a photo that a vendor was offering to take and then have to argue over a huge sum because they didn’t ask first), don’t drink water straight from the tap… ever, carry your own toilet paper (this is more for areas outside of Shanghai), avoid buying drugs (hashish and marijuana are readily available in Shanghai but the penalty would be severe… prison and expulsion from the country most likely… Amsterdam it is not), etc., etc.
Like I said, I’m happy to help. China is one of my favorite topics!
Montythemoth
Australia
Excellent. To be honest, we are not sure where we will go as just about to embark in a course to become qualified and then have to find job, Shanghai is appealing to me, but that is just pure instinct as opposed to any idea of where else to go. I think it would be easier to go there rather thansomewhere in rural China where the likelihood of finding english speakers would be diminished; i’d imagine…
I’m actually in Australia – thanks for the tips re: haggling etc..and the tips re: clock and chopsticks. It is such a fascinating culture – almost superstitious would you say? I really want to learn about Feng Shui and the power of numbers… actually – would you believe – I went through a stage of reading “The Secret” – you are probably familiar with it? Anyway in it there is a blank cheque which you can copy and write out an amount of money you wish to have and a date when you wish to receive it….. the idea is to basically look at it every day and the universe will get to work to make it so, freakily enough – I did this ages ago before China was even something i had contemplated -since then I have been reading up on the Beijing olympics etc and found that the date it kicks of is 08/08/08 and the time is 08/08 – this is due to the Chinese belief in numbers – apparantly 8 represents prosperity or something similar. Would you believe – the blank cheque (not blank anymore) made out to me with $ 2 million dollars on it is dated (unwittingly to me at the time, most randomly) 08/ 08/08 …. Some might say a funny coincidence, but I think there is some power working there and I tapped into it, lets hope so anyway it would be great… anyway I digress…
What would you recommend as must see’s and dos in China – not just SHanghai -but in China in general
Thanks
Stuart
Garrettsville
Shanghai is a good, safe start. You are correct about the lack of English speakers in more remote areas.
I am familiar with The Secret, just promise me that if you hit that $2 million, you won’t forget me, LOL (and more power to you… just use it wisely)!
Yeah the number 8 is a big deal to the Chinese and they have all sorts of superstitions that are very fascinating.
I’d watch out for feng shui as the sort we get here in the West is often a bit full of it compared to the real thing. Just have an open mind and realize that they may find your ideas on feng shui to be “western” (and there are plenty of Chinese who don’t believe in it at all). I’d recommend you read up on Chinese traditional medicine. It is amazing the breadth and depth of things they can deal with. When it comes to acute, critical care I’d like my western style emergency room, but for everything else I’ll take chinese medicines. I remember when a doctor over there prescribed some foul smelling liquid and a paste for my wife’s broken ankle. I questioned him about what, exactly, this stuff did and he assured me that after so many thousands of years of practice, they could handle a broken bone like no one else. He was right, her ankle healed up incredibly fast and well.
As for places to visit… where do I start? I’ll go from north to south: Inner Mongolia (desert and grassland, Mongolian people, go in the summer… too cold otherwise), Beijing (Great Wall, Forbidden City, Tiananmen Square, Great Hall of the People, Summer Palace, etc.), Qingdao (great beer and a beautiful city to boot), Pingyao (tiny town in Shanxi Province that has the oldest complete and original city wall in the world), Xian (Terracotta Warriors, Goose pagoda, HUGE city wall, Oldest all wood mosque in the world, bell tower), Hangzhou (only 2 hours from Shanghai, visit and live around the West Lake.. stay in the youth hostel as it is cheap, clean and perfectly located…, Lingyin Temple, home of the worlds best green tea “Dragon’s Well Tea”), Yellow Mountain, Sichuan Province (Leshan… world’s largest buddha, Chengdu… panda research facility, hot pot and more, Jiuzaigou… a natural park that rivals the best in the world), Guilin (ever seen those amazing photos of mound shaped mountains surrounded by lakes? That is this place), Tibet, Xinjiang Province (Muslim section of China. Very remote and different), Hong Kong. For a day trip out of Shanghai I would recommend Hangzhou and some of the ancient canal towns like Zhouzhuang, Tongli and Luzhi in Jiangsu Province, and Nanxun, Xitang and Wuzhen in Jiangsu Province. Really you should go to the canal towns and stay overnight as they are swarming with tourists during the day but wonderfully empty and peaceful at evening and in the morning.
There is much, much more but this will get you started. Surprisingly, there really isn’t all that much to do in Shanghai. I mean, it is a huge city with everything huge cities have but to really experience China you have to leave Shanghai.
Stuart
Garrettsville
Shanghai is a good, safe start. You are correct about the lack of English speakers in more remote areas.
I am familiar with The Secret, just promise me that if you hit that $2 million, you won’t forget me, LOL (and more power to you… just use it wisely)!
Yeah the number 8 is a big deal to the Chinese and they have all sorts of superstitions that are very fascinating.
I’d watch out for feng shui as the sort we get here in the West is often a bit full of it compared to the real thing. Just have an open mind and realize that they may find your ideas on feng shui to be “western” (and there are plenty of Chinese who don’t believe in it at all). I’d recommend you read up on Chinese traditional medicine. It is amazing the breadth and depth of things they can deal with. When it comes to acute, critical care I’d like my western style emergency room, but for everything else I’ll take chinese medicines. I remember when a doctor over there prescribed some foul smelling liquid and a paste for my wife’s broken ankle. I questioned him about what, exactly, this stuff did and he assured me that after so many thousands of years of practice, they could handle a broken bone like no one else. He was right, her ankle healed up incredibly fast and well.
As for places to visit… where do I start? I’ll go from north to south: Inner Mongolia (desert and grassland, Mongolian people, go in the summer… too cold otherwise), Beijing (Great Wall, Forbidden City, Tiananmen Square, Great Hall of the People, Summer Palace, etc.), Qingdao (great beer and a beautiful city to boot), Pingyao (tiny town in Shanxi Province that has the oldest complete and original city wall in the world), Xian (Terracotta Warriors, Goose pagoda, HUGE city wall, Oldest all wood mosque in the world, bell tower), Hangzhou (only 2 hours from Shanghai, visit and live around the West Lake.. stay in the youth hostel as it is cheap, clean and perfectly located…, Lingyin Temple, home of the worlds best green tea “Dragon’s Well Tea”), Yellow Mountain, Sichuan Province (Leshan… world’s largest buddha, Chengdu… panda research facility, hot pot and more, Jiuzaigou… a natural park that rivals the best in the world), Guilin (ever seen those amazing photos of mound shaped mountains surrounded by lakes? That is this place), Tibet, Xinjiang Province (Muslim section of China. Very remote and different), Hong Kong. For a day trip out of Shanghai I would recommend Hangzhou and some of the ancient canal towns like Zhouzhuang, Tongli and Luzhi in Jiangsu Province, and Nanxun, Xitang and Wuzhen in Jiangsu Province. Really you should go to the canal towns and stay overnight as they are swarming with tourists during the day but wonderfully empty and peaceful at evening and in the morning.
There is much, much more but this will get you started. Surprisingly, there really isn’t all that much to do in Shanghai. I mean, it is a huge city with everything huge cities have but to really experience China you have to leave Shanghai.
IndyInJapan
Tokyo
2007 December 6 Thursday 06:38 GMT
Aloha, Montythemoth,
Most people who have visited Shangahi, or lived there, as I have, rave about it. There is a lot to rave about.
And, there are some things you must know about “New” China.
David Kilgour, a former Secretary of State of Canada, has what he terms “33 Articles of Proof” that the Communist Party of China is orchestrating the harvesting of human vital organs from living people, and then selling them as organ transplants.
Shocked? Can’t believe it? See the proof here:
Kilgour Report:
http://investigation.go.saveinter.net/
As of 2007 November 11, there is still no freedom of the press in China. Read Edward Cody of the Washington Post:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/11/AR2007111101455.html?nav=emailp
Foreigners are not immune:
http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=20779
I finally chose not to live with my wife and infant son in China because of intolerable air pollution (both outdoors and indoors, as everyone smokes everywhere), and discomfort about the police state that still exists there.
I sincerely hope it will change. But if you think it already has, at least as far as human rights and civil liberties are concerned, you may GET an education as well as giving one when you get there.
Good luck,
Indy
BlueAquarius
Shanghai
Hi, I am working as a teacher in Shanghai right now. I really enjoy it. Shanghai is a fast paced city, always bustling. I only know a little Chinese, but people are always understanding and helpful when we can’t communicate through language. China is an amazing place, unlike anything I was expecting. If you have any more questions, please don’t hesitate to ask.
Montythemoth
Australia
Hi there! Wow I have been hoping to speak to someone who is doing the same thing. Did you do a TESOL course? I am doing one through SEEK LEARNING in Aus… haven’t started yet but hope to finish it soon and then zip over by Jan /feb.
Can you tell me about the teaching? Are you teaching kids or adults? How many per class? Do you pick up any tutoring work?
What is the food like? Culture Shock like? Accommodation like?
When you get a visa for China are you supposed to have a certain amount of $$ in the bank?
If you have time to answer some or all of these I’d really appreciate it!
Cheers
BlueAquarius
Shanghai
Yes, I took a TESOL course. The company I did it through was a nightmare to work with though. I ended up finding a job without their help.
Right now I’m a preschool teacher, teaching 2-3 year olds. I’m with the same class of 12 kids all day, and I do more than just teach English. Before this job, I worked in a smaller city at a private English school. There I worked five days a week (evenings and weekends) and did 2-8 40 minute English classes per day for kids ages 2-14, with 6-15 kids per class. I haven’t ever done tutoring, but there are always ads for tutors wanted in the classifieds here.
The food is usually meat and/or veggies stir-fried in oil, with rice, noodles, soup, or wontons. You can find almost any other kind of food you’d like in Shanghai, too.
The biggest shock I had moving here is all the people, everywhere, all the time. That and a lot of people are superstitious.
The hotels/hostels I’ve stayed in have all been decent with western toilets and very firm beds. The cleanliness and size of places can vary. All the apartments I’ve lived in have had western toilets, but no insulation. You basically live in a concrete block, so it can get really cold in the winter and really hot in the summer, and there’s no noise dampening.
As for the visa, I only had to prove I had money in the bank once, and that was because my company at the time was doing things the “wrong way”. You shouldn’t have to prove you have any amount of money to get a visa if you are doing things the right way.
I hope that helps :)
